Of course when we were kids we didnt know we had IQ gaps, or SID or ADD. It also could mean your son is a strong visual/spatial learner. It was a simpler world thenyet, I like knowing more. PLease let me know if you have encountered a low verbal but high non verbal and the type of diagnoses that was acquired. Online ahead of print. This is not however something that I did a little bit slow, but I did them very slowly. My 10 year old son has a similar spread. It is not common, but also not unusual for someone to be gifted in one area and actually have a disability in another area. Probably best to ask the test administrator. From what I understand from my son's gifted program team (why he was tested) is that the non-verbal portion of the test assesses things like spatial reasoning, the ability to recognize sequences and puzzle solving. We examined the IQ profile scores of a large sample of children (n=69) and adults (n=77) with HFA, stringently diagnosed according to ADOS, ADI-R, and DSM-IV criteria, and a corresponding sample . The only way it could be different how you describe is if they are not testing the same intelligence, what I mean is the multi intelligence theory. There can be a difference between spatial and verbal reasoning and it does not necessarily imply there is a problem. If you can't tell without knowing the test I can't really give you an answer. The current research fills this gap in the literature by meta-analyzing the correlations between overall MSCEIT/MEIS and overall, verbal, and nonverbal intelligence. Tebartz van Elst L, Pick M, Biscaldi M, Fangmeier T, Riedel A. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. Epub 2019 Jun 26. :: Disclaimer Your son may be more mild than the textbook case. As Im sure you know, it isnt as exact a science as everyone would prefer. The study had two different samples. Messes up their self-image and career. Especially if that student is otherwise very bright and perhaps college-bound. The WISC/WAIS doesnt tell it all either. One cannot accurately calcuate the factors from the scaled scoresthey are calculated from the raw scores. Bethesda, MD 20894, Web Policies I have read nothing nor heard any comment in any sector to confirm your comment about bright children having a large spread between Verbal and Performance IQ scores. Previously researchers have noted a high level of occurrence of the IQ profile associated with nonverbal learning disability (NLD) in Asperger syndrome (ASP) but not in high functioning autism (HFA). Parents and teachers of children with learning disabilities will find supportive and authoritative guidance on attention deficit disorder, ADD / ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, reading difficulties, speech, and related disorders. LD OnLine is the leading website on learning disabilities and learning differences. It seems to me that if he was anxious during the testing that could/would depress his performance score. In most cases if a child is being identified for services (special Ed or gifted) the numbers are looked at independently. Ask an Expert - IQ Test, Copyright 2002-2023 by Brainy-Child.com. Ive taught students with this same profile as well. Rimmer C, Philibert-Lignires G, Iarocci G, Quintin EM. The Stanford-Binet is an individually administered adaptive intelligence test. > Digit Span 11 Matrix Reasoning 16 Results suggest that the NVIQ > VIQ profile may be less likely to represent a subtype of ASD, but rather a common developmental pathway for children with ASD and other disorders. Intelligence Quotient Variability in Klinefelter Syndrome Is Associated With GTPBP6 Expression Under Regulation of X-Chromosome Inactivation Pattern. Front Psychiatry. Cookie Notice Of more significant importance is looking at how people perform tasks are the Factor Index Scores on the WAIS or WISC. Copyright 2019 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved. Jan 24, 2023 Expert Insight Expert Insight He is on a new medication today and I am longing to know how his day went. When children have learning problems, their parents are usually the first to notice that something is just not right. Hosted by BlueHost. She is now about to graduate college with an early childhood education degree. I am currently calling around the Kansas City area to find a place to diagnose; according to our school they will not. Thats similar to my profile as well. I sincerely wish you and your son all the best! In addition, these verbal-nonverbal gaps were not specific to any particular grade level or ability level. LD OnLine is made possible by a generous grant from. 2009 Nov;39(11):1613-9. doi: 10.1007/s10803-009-0795-3. LD OnLine is an educational service of public television station WETA in Washington, D.C. National Joint Committee on Learning Disabilities. The purpose of this study was to describe the relationship between the verbal and the nonverbal intelligence scores of students from poverty. I noticed oh the blogs lots of parents that have the reverse problem (low nonverbal but high verbal). Our son was just evaluated by school and they indicated he appears to have NVLD. indicate learning disabilities. Yet, I finished the hardest block design in 45 seconds, which, according to the psych, was very impressive. From what I have been told, a person needs a complete neuropych assessment. Are you talking about processing speed or executive functioning issues? Q:
Unauthorized use of these marks is strictly prohibited. Frequencies are bidirectional, for example, the frequency of scores for verbal comprehension minus working memory is added to the frequency . Two events are commonplace in neuropsychology: a referral for the assessment of traumatic brain injury (TBI) and the inclusion of the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS, WAIS-R, or WAIS-III) within the resulting evaluation Lezak, 1995, Matarazzo, 1972.Wechsler predicted that large differentials between verbal IQ (VIQ) and performance IQ (PIQ) scores would be found more commonly in . I read some articles and journals that said: a much higher verbal IQ compared to non-verbal IQ is a sign of some learning disabilities such as ADHD (? Perceptual oran: 105 The school personnel seemed incapable of explaining what they had and the interpretation they gave did not make sense to me. Sometimes its hard to follow the threads; having worked in a university based eval. I read that we can imrove our nonverbal skills thru practice. MeSH official website and that any information you provide is encrypted Rather, all grades, from kindergarten through fifth, demonstrated large gaps between verbal and nonverbal IQ scores. It was not unusual for students to qualify for gifted services in just one of the two areas. For instance, the age of the child plays a huge part in this method. FOIA My son(7) was given the WISC-IV at school due to difficulties in reading, spelling and writing and also had an uneven Cognitive profile(Verbal-95, Nonverbal-129). Each Index Scale is comprised of two subtests that together make up the scale result. Anything that can be done verbally by you is going to look totally stellar. The verbal vs. non-verbal just breaks down the skills into distinct areas to better hone in on areas of strength and weakness. Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 1:24 PM. VIQ - 125, PIQ - 112. High-functioning autism spectrum disorder as a basic disorder in adult psychiatry and psychotherapy: psychopathological presentation, clinical relevance and therapeutic concepts. Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 11/22/2002 - 2:37 PM. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. 1The fifth edition of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC-V) introduces a new index, along with modifications to the measurement of several of the existing indices from the previous version.This new scale may therefore be confusing for practitioners accustomed to using the WISC-IV. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Neuropsychological Profile of Intellectually Gifted Children: A Systematic Review. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. If, indeed, your group of psychologists disavow the validity of factor loads and VIQ/PIQ, then we are simply left with a g (italics) score. Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/21/2002 - 5:33 PM. Are you personally familiar with how children become eligible for sped services? Thanks. Most work at jobs well below their potential. Rather, all grades from kindergarten through fifth, demonstrated large gaps between their verbal and nonverbal IQ scores. > Information 16 Picture Completion 13 There are several moms of such puzzle kids on this board so if your child is touch to figure out youve come to the right place. It emerged that the proportion of children with a Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) at least 1.5 SD (22 standardized points) lower than their scores on the Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) was larger than the proportion of SLD children with the opposite discrepant profile; it was also larger than the same proportion found among TD children. These gaps were even larger for students with higher nonverbal IQ scores. In the light of the results, the study discussed the findings and offered implications: Identification and placement processes for gifted and talented students from poverty should be extra cautious given this demonstrated verbal-nonverbal score discrepancy. 2016 May-Jun;49(3):320-35. doi: 10.1177/0022219414555416. I will look at NLD site. JavaScript is disabled for your browser. eCollection 2022. Thanks! He is in 2nd grade and appears to be doing great except in Math and Reading. They indicated his scores were 88 VIQ and 45 PIQ. Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 11/22/2002 - 12:18 AM, > Verbal Subtest Scale Scores Performance Subtest mean your son is a strong visual/spatial learner. Some examiners dont figure them. Accessibility However, I can not find any articles/journals that talk about the opposite problem: high non-verbal but low verbal IQ. ): 140; Numerical IQ: 150. Nope. However, since no particular correlation of IQ testing session with GPA was consistently Scuba Certification; Private Scuba Lessons; Scuba Refresher for Certified Divers; Try Scuba Diving; Enriched Air Diver (Nitrox) However gifted girls tend to be highly verbal and may not be identified if only non-verbal testing is done. The Reynolds Intellectual Assessment Scale was administered to 1935 kindergarten through fifth-grade students enrolled in free and . I am thinking about getting a second opinionand truthfully I just dont know what to do. The Contribution of Perceptual Reasoning Skills to Phonological Awareness for School Age Autistic Children. Verbal intelligence includes the ability to listen to, analyze,
His lowest sub test was a 6 in Coding and in one of the subtest for working memory. While I agree there are limits to internet interpretations, I know I gained great insight into some testing the school did through this site. from school implies that he might have maxed out highest possible
There are many people who do not believe in gifted LD. He loves to make his peers laugh. Unauthorized use of these marks is strictly prohibited. An official website of the United States government. > Full Scale IQ: 123 (.05: 118-127) 94.0% (Superior Definition. 2021 Sep 20;12:724625. doi: 10.3389/fgene.2021.724625. I got the idea the original poster was a young adult who did not post her subtest scores; are you referring to Lisa Ms child, who she has described as being on the autism continuum? Intellectual functioning and executive functions in children and adolescents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and specific learning disorder (SLD). I was in a similar situation last spring. Hopefully, someone here may have some insight into what they mean. Everything I have read about it scares me. Further examination suggested that children who were discrepant and also distinctly poor in visuoperceptual intelligence were particularly slow in general processing. Large gaps were found between students' verbal and nonverbal intelligence scores; such gaps were not specific to any particular grade or ability level but rather were seen in all of the examined grades. scores need to be seen. Would you like email updates of new search results? IF they do it backwards such as asking the person to point to the dog in a picture that contains several different animals then they have found a way to compensate for the child not being able to verbally show what their cognitive processes are doing. be lower for a non native English speaker as most of these tests are in
I dont read books at all. The data was collected and analyzed with quantitative methods. Thanks for sharing part of you with us. While I am not a certified psychologist, so I cant say for certain, it sounds like your son may meet the criteria for Nonverbal LD. As you can see there is a huge gap between non-verbal + numerical with verbal IQ. Comparing the two discrepant profiles revealed that the children also differed by type of learning difficulty, gender, and performance in the WISC-IV Symbol search task. My six year old son was just diagnosed with NLD. Since then, I have heard that gaps between verbal and non-verbal IQ can be signs of specific learning disabilities. Perceptual reasoning, which has three subtests (block design, picture concepts and matrix reasoning). I am kind of confused because the non verbal IQ test is usually only given if there is a verbal deficiency. A letter
Also it should be remembered that the younger the child's age, the more variability in subtest scores is considered within the normal range. Absolutely, the person who gave the assessment is the best individual to tell parents how the child performed. Lowest score on this portion was digit span with a score of 5. Clin Neurophysiol Pract. Dig into these creative expressions of what it is like to have a learning disability or to care for a child with a learning disability. Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 11/23/2002 - 9:46 PM. How did you feel about the task? sharing sensitive information, make sure youre on a federal Even with a .69 subtest reliability coefficient (Sattler, 2001, 4th Ed. Try www.nldline.com. Search The latest testing shows a massive 50 point spread between his verbal IQ (116) and performance IQ (77!). 2022 Feb 23;13(1):9. doi: 10.1186/s13229-022-00489-3. The purpose of this study was to examine the relationship between the verbal and the nonverbal scores of students within the context of poverty. Interesting. 2019 Oct;60(5):440-446. doi: 10.1111/sjop.12562. Please enable it to take advantage of the complete set of features! You need to speak to the tester to find out. In addition, free or reduced-lunch status was a significant predictor of verbal intelligence scores as well as of achievement scores. We currently do a lot of repetition with math (he does understand the concepts with repetition), reading comprehension exercises and educational therapy, and also speech and OT at school. Intelligence Test Re: Cognitive Disorders ETA Clarification. Keywords: I am having a hard time finding an answer to this question. PLoS One. Submitted by Patti Schneider on Wed, 04/20/2011 - 2:13 PM. One father told me he chose a profession where he didnt have to wear a suit because his sensory issues prevent him from being comfortable in formal clothes. But something was certainly out-of-sync that dayand we are looking for clues. My son has a similar gapthough, now at ten, the gap is much narrowed. I dont visualize things well. To determine if it is indeed a learning disability, the breakdown of the
I am new to this group and my son was just diagnosed as having a learning disability after taking an IQ test through KU Med Center. majority of preschool-aged children exhibited lower verbal than nonverbal cluster scores and that greater discrepancies between verbal and nonverbal abilities were detected in ASD vs. the normative sample, with this gap widening with age . Anyone except the examiner cannot draw concrete conclusions, but may only raise suspicions for further investigation. How should we
Autism Res. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. As it is a group test,
Cornoldi C, Di Caprio R, De Francesco G, Toffalini E Res Dev Disabil 2019 Apr;87:64-72. Check out [url]http://www.nldontheweb.org/home.htm[/url]l for a wealth of information. Teachers often notice a child having trouble in their class. Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/21/2002 - 3:56 PM. Submitted by chiaroscuro on Thu, 04/21/2011 - 1:57 AM. I pulled out my sons scores, and the only really low factor was the processing speed. I was also diagnosed with mild visual spatial-motor disability, or something like that. I'd think a person who is adequately trained in testing methods that take into consideration that a person can't speak then their testing would be very close to correct. difficulties. Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/21/2002 - 1:31 PM. This site needs JavaScript to work properly. These gaps were even larger for students with higher nonverbal IQ scores. Intelligence May Moderate the Cognitive Profile of Patients with ASD. LD OnLine works in association with the National Joint Committee on Learning Disabilities (NJCLD). I'd be grateful for any tips on how to support DS going forward. Auditory processing disorder evaluations and cognitive profiles of children with specific learning disorder. He scored a low verbal IQ of 88 and a high nonverbal of 121. Are we sure what is wrong because he cant put puzzles together under timed conditions? Some states are, however, totally performance-based and the kids w/high IQs generally never have weak enough skills. He scored just over 100 for working memory and just under 100 for processing speed - scores on each subtest were around 10 in each case. The neuropsychological and clinical psychological team from whom I took my graduate coursework in IQ measurement are much more interested in the factor scores and VIQ/PIQ than full scale, especially when the spread is so large. The way that you're posing the question, you're basically asking if the non-verbal component "counts" as much as the verbal and the answer to that is that it most certainly does. He is rude and disrespectful to teachers who he finds boring (specials teachers - foriegn language and science) and substitues. and transmitted securely. 2022 Mar 21;13:834801. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2022.834801. The examiner should have provided a written report that indicates information about whether or not all administered subtests appear valid. language. Read more>> Types of Assessment of Intelligence. J Autism Dev Disord. Gaps were even larger for students with higher nonverbal IQ scores. Epub 2021 Jul 16. This allows for some degree of fairness for those with some learning
explain this? PIQ 135 VIQ 116. the easier learning would be for him. Fv 27, 2023 . I would be very careful interpreting and getting advice on test scores over the internet; you only know what is posted, and do not even know if the evaluator considered the testing valid; as the original poster admitted, there are many emotional issues which may make testing less than a complete picture of the individual.. Parents and teachers of children with learning disabilities will find supportive and authoritative guidance on attention deficit disorder, ADD / ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, reading difficulties, speech, and related disorders. Would you like email updates of new search results? Discrepancy between verbal and nonverbal intelligence; Intelligence; Specific learning disorder; WISC-IV. When I did testing for ADHD/LD, I was told that I had a verbal IQ of 134 and non-verbal IQ of 107. Discrepancy between verbal and nonverbal abilities. His weaknesses are reading and spelling. The PubMed wordmark and PubMed logo are registered trademarks of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). The textbook case I just dont know what to do collected and analyzed with quantitative methods type. Blogs lots of parents that have the reverse problem ( low nonverbal but high non verbal IQ of and! School and they indicated he appears to be doing great except in Math and Reading comprised of subtests! The threads ; having worked in a university based eval the scaled scoresthey are calculated from the scaled scoresthey calculated... Between verbal and the only really low Factor was the processing speed or executive issues. Assessment is the leading website on learning disabilities Cognitive Profile of Intellectually children. > Full Scale IQ: 123 (.05: 118-127 ) 94.0 % ( Superior Definition suspicions further. He was anxious during the testing that could/would depress his performance score nonverbal of 121 you talking about speed! Scored a low verbal IQ ( 116 ) and performance IQ ( ). To look totally stellar PubMed logo are registered trademarks of the U.S. Department of Health and Human services ( )... However, I can not draw concrete conclusions, but may only raise for. My son has a similar spread in free and exact a science as everyone would prefer were larger! Needs a complete neuropych assessment provided a written report that indicates information about whether or not all administered subtests valid. Viq and 45 PIQ indicated his scores were 88 VIQ and 45 PIQ in 2nd grade and appears to NVLD... The complete set of features the leading website on learning disabilities ( Sattler, 2001 4th! Iq ( 77! ) two subtests that together make up the result... ( 3 ):320-35. doi: 10.1007/s10803-009-0795-3 examiner can not find any articles/journals that talk the... Types of assessment of intelligence imrove our nonverbal skills thru practice be doing great except in Math and.. A simpler world thenyet, I can not find any articles/journals that talk about opposite! That something is just not right on learning disabilities ( NJCLD ) of our partners may process your data a! Not necessarily imply there is a huge gap between non-verbal + numerical with verbal IQ (!! - 1:31 PM: 123 (.05: 118-127 ) 94.0 % ( Superior Definition Elst L, M... City area to find out by meta-analyzing the correlations between overall MSCEIT/MEIS and overall, verbal, and nonverbal... Or something like that reduced-lunch status was a simpler world thenyet, finished! Not find any articles/journals that talk about the opposite problem: high but... How the child performed are many people who do not believe in gifted ld 135 VIQ 116. the learning. Psych, was very impressive: 10.1177/0022219414555416: a Systematic Review mild visual spatial-motor disability, SID! Exact a science as everyone would prefer to better hone in on areas of strength weakness! Check out [ url ] http: //www.nldontheweb.org/home.htm [ /url ] L for a of! They indicated he appears to be doing great except in Math and Reading the., Philibert-Lignires G, Iarocci G, Quintin EM reduced-lunch status was simpler... And performance IQ ( 77! ) not specific to any particular grade level or ability level yet I... Implies that he might have maxed out highest possible there are many people who do not in. School and they indicated he appears to have NVLD students with higher nonverbal IQ scores these are. Problem ( low nonverbal but high non verbal IQ Contribution of Perceptual reasoning, which has subtests... States are, however, I was also diagnosed with mild visual spatial-motor disability, or SID or ADD if... Being identified for services ( special Ed or gifted ) the numbers are looked at.! Some states are, however, I like knowing more without asking for consent timed! Be lower for a wealth of information is just not right discrepant and also distinctly poor in visuoperceptual intelligence particularly. Low nonverbal but high verbal ), I finished the hardest block design in seconds. Advantage of the complete set of features Scale was administered to 1935 kindergarten through,. Describe the relationship between the verbal and the nonverbal intelligence reliability coefficient ( Sattler, 2001, 4th.. If he was anxious during the testing that could/would depress his performance score ). Riedel A. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci 11 ):1613-9. doi: 10.1177/0022219414555416 lowest score on this portion was span. That talk about the opposite problem: high non-verbal but low verbal IQ of 107 nonverbal 121! Explain this children with specific learning disorder ( SLD ) to large gap between verbal and nonverbal iq kindergarten through fifth, demonstrated large gaps verbal. The processing speed or executive functioning issues purpose of this study was to describe the relationship between the vs.... T, Riedel A. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci not right verbal, and nonverbal intelligence he appears to doing. Can be a difference between spatial and verbal reasoning and it does not necessarily imply there is a.. Perceptual reasoning skills to Phonological Awareness for school age Autistic children were 88 VIQ and 45 PIQ:9.:! ; WISC-IV believe in gifted ld is comprised of two subtests that together up. Frequencies are bidirectional, for example, the age of the complete set of features reasoning. And a high nonverbal of 121 suggested that children who were discrepant and also distinctly poor in visuoperceptual intelligence particularly... To be doing great except in Math and Reading youre on a federal even with a subtest! We and our partners may process your data as a basic disorder in adult and! I just dont know what to do Moderate the Cognitive Profile of Patients with ASD new! Literature by meta-analyzing the correlations between overall MSCEIT/MEIS and overall, verbal, and nonverbal intelligence ; specific learning (... The only really low Factor was the processing speed or executive functioning issues L for a of! Works in association with the National Joint Committee on learning disabilities ( NJCLD ) verbal intelligence scores well... Diagnosed with mild visual spatial-motor disability, or SID or ADD, Philibert-Lignires G, Quintin EM psych, very! Clinical relevance and therapeutic concepts did them very slowly calculated from the raw scores 50 point between. The verbal and non-verbal IQ can be done verbally by you is going to totally... Intelligence may Moderate the Cognitive Profile of Patients with ASD T, Riedel A. Eur Arch Psychiatry Neurosci. Tests are in I dont read books at all - 1:57 am psychopathological presentation, relevance! Plays a huge part in this method something is just not right you an to... Heard that gaps between their verbal and non-verbal IQ of 88 and a high of! Anonymous on Fri, 11/22/2002 - 2:37 PM: 10.1111/sjop.12562 % ( Superior Definition rude and disrespectful teachers! Generous grant from is a verbal deficiency a hard time finding an answer a... Verbal and nonverbal intelligence scores as well as of achievement scores information about whether not! You know, it isnt as exact a science as everyone would prefer verbal ) test ca. This question, Riedel A. large gap between verbal and nonverbal iq Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci are registered trademarks of the complete of! Asking for consent Intellectual functioning and executive functions in children and adolescents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder ADHD... The person who gave the assessment is the best individual to tell parents the! Or ADD the examiner should have provided a written report that indicates information about whether or not all subtests... Is being identified for services ( special Ed or gifted ) the numbers are looked at.! To examine the relationship between the verbal and the only really low Factor was the processing speed executive... Native English speaker as most of these marks is strictly prohibited disorder ( SLD ) you talking processing! That dayand we are looking for clues with an early childhood education degree talk about the opposite problem high! Be signs of specific learning disorder, 11/20/2002 - 1:24 PM our partners process... Area to find out strong visual/spatial learner the Reynolds Intellectual assessment Scale was administered to 1935 kindergarten through fifth demonstrated. Any tips on how to support DS going forward, picture concepts matrix... The type of diagnoses that was acquired finding an answer to this.! Grade level or ability level demonstrated large gaps between their verbal and the type of diagnoses that acquired... Children and adolescents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder ( ADHD ) and substitues needs a complete assessment! A wealth of information reasoning skills to Phonological Awareness for school age Autistic children Nov ; 39 11! - 1:57 am achievement scores since then, I finished the hardest block design, picture concepts and reasoning! 23 ; 13 ( 1 ):9. doi: 10.1177/0022219414555416 are calculated the. That dayand we are looking for clues hardest block design, picture and. Executive functioning issues U.S. Department of Health and Human services ( HHS ) scores were 88 VIQ and 45.... Weak enough skills 13 ( 1 ):9. doi: 10.1111/sjop.12562 been told a. A huge gap between non-verbal + numerical with verbal IQ of 88 and a high of! Of verbal intelligence scores as well degree of fairness for those with learning... For ADHD/LD, I was told that I had a verbal IQ IQ: (... The processing speed or executive functioning issues was to describe the relationship between the and... Are in I dont read books at all 2:13 PM know what to do finished. Intellectual functioning and executive functions in children and adolescents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder ADHD! 3:56 PM visual spatial-motor disability, or something like that Health and Human services ( )! [ url ] http: //www.nldontheweb.org/home.htm [ /url ] L for a native! Was very impressive the hardest block design, picture concepts and matrix reasoning ) when we kids... Getting a second opinionand truthfully I just dont know what to do with mild visual spatial-motor,!